the problem is…

… That there is no intellectual coherence in the moderation of e-sangha. One, while there are clearly stated rules, there is no consistency in the enforcement of these rules. In terms of enforcement, the basis for enforcement extends as far as the tolerance of the most twitchy moderator du jour. There is also an subtext of hypocrisy in the moderation, as moderators and friends of moderators can do as they will as long as it is deemed “for the dharma”. There is also a subtext of extreme bias as the moderators are not dispassionate observers, but rather, they actively promote specific viewpoints like any other user.

Ironically, this could be solved simply by having a time and place for discussing matters of board moderation. This could be a separate forum. I would think it would be better to discuss these issues amongst members *on the board* than across the internet on contra e-sangha sites and blogs.

In my time at e-sangha I would have loved to contribute money or take the responsibility to be a moderator or whatever. It’s a cool idea. Unfortunately, it’s also a little hinky.

In the meantime, you should try http://buddhistforums.net/, run by some nice people as a new site.

hmmm….I’ve often wondered about e-sangha. Now that it is unavailable for some reason (likely technical), I google “what’s wrong with e-sangha” and I find this. Too bad, I have gained insight from some of the posts, but do find many to be repetitive and yes, even weird. But you are correct, it’s like watching a sinking ship. You know how it ends, but you can’t help watching.

I sure wish there were other sites where ideas and insights could be shared and discussed openly and without attack, but then, this is the internet.

I am not sure if we log in to the same e-sangha, for I know not of a single member who holds on to a literal belief in hell, never mind froth at the mouth about it, which isn’t to say there isn’t any who don’t… It’s quite possible indeed. After all, ignorance abounds everywhere – both inside and outside e-sangha – but I am fortunate enough to know from personal experience that there is one place on the internet where we have a true opportunity to do away with ours, thanks to the ever present discussion of Buddhist teachings (ridding of ignorance is part of the goal after all).

On the contrary, I’ve watched many discussions suggesting quite the opposite, that many (if not most) members do not hold on to any literal belief in hell (as a place existing somewhere, where we go after dying), devils and the like and that many members do not hold any beliefs that appear unscientific. So much so that a lot of e-sangha members still have trouble with issues such as “reincarnation”. Unfortunately, liberation of the mind (a.k.a enlightenment) is hardly possible (if possible at all) without attaining understanding of what is literal and what is metaphor.

Equally, there are many non e-sangha members who don’t believe in hell at all, while forgetting the one we create in our minds and in the world, before, when we think and speak and/or act with deceit, anger, greed, envy and/or hate (to name but a few), causing suffering to ourselves before causing suffering to others. What goes around, comes around… We harvest what we seed. It may take time sometimes but – ultimately – it doesn’t fail. That’s Karma for fools, since Karma really is a bit more complicated than that.

As to e-sangha being hell, one thing I have learned there is that whenever I feel in hell or see faults, whether in a place or in this or that person, I should really look inside my mind to find the fault. You may feel different. It’s only natural… Wherever we go, we take our luggage with us.

When I first came across Buddhist teachings, I asked myself why the many Buddhas thought necessary to “liberate the mind”… “Foolish superstitions!”, I thought, “my mind is free!”. But then I remembered some of Albert Einstein’s most famous words. I’ve heard that he stated once that we only use a small percentage of our brains…

1+1=3 (or is it 1?)

Fortunately, many are awakening and learning to connect the missing dots, until there is only one big picture left. Unfortunately, spiritual teachers are the only ones teaching it. Maybe because free minds are not very good for those willing to exploit people’s ignorance about themselves and about the way their minds work…

All the best to you,

I just wanted to add these words spoken by the Tathagata to my previous comment and add a short comment on my understanding on them:

“Nirvana comes to thee, Kassapa, when thou understandest thoroughly, and when thou livest according to thy understanding, that all things are of one essence and that there is but one law.”
in One Essence, One Law, One Aim

In my mind, it is not possible to have two simultaneously conflictive and thoroughly correct opinions on Buddha’s teachings. At best, two opposing ’subjective truths’ (or opinions) carry a particle of the ‘objective truth’ each, which is how things really are and how a Buddha perceives things.

According to the Tathagata, understanding “precedes” practice, and I feel this suggests that the Tathagata sees “solid practice” as practice according to an understanding already attained and – consequently – not merely on faith or belief, which is more like a slippery stepping stone at best.

So I would say, neither look down on understanding nor on practice, for ultimately they are one and the same. And don’t look down on thinking, talking, writing and/or reading, for one of them (at least) is necessary to arrive at attaining understanding and ultimately build a solid practice.

Love and Light
James

I am adressing no one specifically and anyone who reads my words and doesn’t yet understand the teachings about reincarnation. And please understand I am not suggesting belief in anything. On the contrary, the word “belief” to me implies accepting something as true without having direct experience and thorough understanding of something, which the Buddha warned against in the Kalama Sutta. At the cost of sounding arrogant, I am talking based on direct experience and not on the words of others, but please don’t take my word for granted since that is precisely what the Buddha warned against. Test it yourself and experience the truth. Have faith but not blind or weak faith, which is belief.

One of our fundamental flaws resulting from and sustaining our ignorance is trying to understand the teachings of a Buddha while looking at themes separately, in a fragmented way, such as “reincarnation”, “no-self”, “impermanence”, “emptiness”, etc. To thoroughly understand Buddha’s teachings, we must connect the apparently separate themes and understand them as a single theme. Consequently, and at least based on my experience, we cannot understand “reincarnation”, until we understand the meaning of “no-self” through experience, which implies absence of a self-identity that reincarnates.

There is much to learn beyond understanding “no-self”, which is still the first stage of enlightenment. Thorough understanding is fundamental to build a practice that is founded on solid ground of direct experience, rather than purely on intellectual shifting sands that carry delusion and ignorance. Hence why talking, as it is done in E-sangha – and as foolish as it is sometimes (not always) – is necessary as well, because the intellect is still necessary to attain understanding.

In the wonderful words of Ryokan Taigu:

“Talk is always easy
Practice always hard
It’s no wonder people try to make up
For their lack of hard practice with easy talk
But the harder they try, the worse things get
The more they talk, the more wrong they go
It’s like pouring oil to put out a fire
Just foolishness and nothing else.”

As much as I admire and understand Ryokan Taigu’s words, which guided me to Buddhism, I feel there is one misperception in this poem, perhaps resulting from his frustration. With all his wisdom, Ryokan seems to have forgotten when writing this poem that talk (and writing) is also practice. Apologies for pointing this out at the cost of showing my own ignorance, but not so different from what I have observed here… Riokan’s last words of “Just foolishness and nothing else” are too extreme a statement to match the Middle Way, which is the only way out of the burning house.

Thorough understanding is an essential step to a solid practice. Hence why I see the value of E-sangha and talk, with all the flaws and risks that it may carry to have thousands of beings suffering from ignorance and delusion discussing such issues. Still, unless we talk, we can hardly understand, even at the risk of our egos disagreeing sometimes.

Lest we forget, only a Buddha is not ignorant and deluded and, as far as we know, there is none around. So – please – don’t take my words personally for they are not directed to anyone specifically, anymore than they are directed to myself.

All the best on everyone’s path.