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	<title>Comments on: Seminaries and Training in the West</title>
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		<title>By: Jiun</title>
		<link>http://www.openbuddha.com/2007/03/27/seminaries-and-training-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-2102</link>
		<dc:creator>Jiun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think one of the possible &quot;requirements&quot; to making a Buddhist Seminary viable is Graduate level accreditation/recognition. Without that - there&#039;s little incentive to attend/participate, unless your particular teacher (or American based lineage) made it a requirement.

Other Western seminaries are frequently only &quot;accredited&quot; by their denomination - but since the seminary training is made a requirement of the denomination, is expected of the clergy of that denomination by its membership, and the denominations themselves are generally of such a size - that this is largely irrelivent.

And of course, for larger denominations, their seminaries *are* accredited.

On the plus side of this - you get University credit (and possibly a full degree - M.Div) for your seminary training.

On the draw-back side - you&#039;ll have to already have your undergraduate degree, and be ready to pay for a graduate degree with no promise (or hope, really) of getting a &quot;job&quot; as a priest that will then help you pay that tuition debt.

When we (Buddhists) expect this level of training and subsequent &quot;service&quot; from our clergy, however, I think we&#039;re also morally obligated to be ready to -pay- them in the same manner that other professional clergy are paid.

Even Catholic priests with vows of poverty get a paycheck from the church. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the possible &#8220;requirements&#8221; to making a Buddhist Seminary viable is Graduate level accreditation/recognition. Without that &#8211; there&#8217;s little incentive to attend/participate, unless your particular teacher (or American based lineage) made it a requirement.</p>
<p>Other Western seminaries are frequently only &#8220;accredited&#8221; by their denomination &#8211; but since the seminary training is made a requirement of the denomination, is expected of the clergy of that denomination by its membership, and the denominations themselves are generally of such a size &#8211; that this is largely irrelivent.</p>
<p>And of course, for larger denominations, their seminaries *are* accredited.</p>
<p>On the plus side of this &#8211; you get University credit (and possibly a full degree &#8211; M.Div) for your seminary training.</p>
<p>On the draw-back side &#8211; you&#8217;ll have to already have your undergraduate degree, and be ready to pay for a graduate degree with no promise (or hope, really) of getting a &#8220;job&#8221; as a priest that will then help you pay that tuition debt.</p>
<p>When we (Buddhists) expect this level of training and subsequent &#8220;service&#8221; from our clergy, however, I think we&#8217;re also morally obligated to be ready to -pay- them in the same manner that other professional clergy are paid.</p>
<p>Even Catholic priests with vows of poverty get a paycheck from the church. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.openbuddha.com/2007/03/27/seminaries-and-training-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-2101</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would think that someone trained to be a minister would be in a sorry state if they didn&#039;t know the ins and outs of their lineage, the way that those of generations before have approached and understood problems, and didn&#039;t have a firm grounding in whatever sutras and tantras are important to the tradition. 

Training as a Zen priest, for example, doesn&#039;t guarantee that you will be trained extensively (and sometimes at all) in these things. Because of that, I would expect that any seminary would have a decent academic program. A Roman Catholic seminary trains its seminarians in the history and theology of the Catholic church and in the Bible, not just in how to minister.

As you mention, there is not a standard level of education for Buddhist clergy and I am not sure that expecting academic programs run by secular institutions to cover many of the basics is a good option. Working in partnership with an academic program may be an option though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that someone trained to be a minister would be in a sorry state if they didn&#8217;t know the ins and outs of their lineage, the way that those of generations before have approached and understood problems, and didn&#8217;t have a firm grounding in whatever sutras and tantras are important to the tradition. </p>
<p>Training as a Zen priest, for example, doesn&#8217;t guarantee that you will be trained extensively (and sometimes at all) in these things. Because of that, I would expect that any seminary would have a decent academic program. A Roman Catholic seminary trains its seminarians in the history and theology of the Catholic church and in the Bible, not just in how to minister.</p>
<p>As you mention, there is not a standard level of education for Buddhist clergy and I am not sure that expecting academic programs run by secular institutions to cover many of the basics is a good option. Working in partnership with an academic program may be an option though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jiun</title>
		<link>http://www.openbuddha.com/2007/03/27/seminaries-and-training-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-2099</link>
		<dc:creator>Jiun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And as a follow-up... I&#039;m not sure we do need schools in the West to train &quot;scholars of Buddhism.&quot; We *have* that already, at a lot of fine institutions of Higher Education. Many of the world&#039;s best &amp; brightest &quot;scholars&quot; of Buddhism are Westerners.

Rather, what I see us needing are professional schools to train professional &quot;practitioners.&quot; Seminaries.

You don&#039;t go to a seminary to be a scholar - you go to become a &quot;minister&quot; - and as more and more Buddhist monks, priests, and &quot;Dharma Teachers&quot; are called upon to &quot;minister&quot; to their Sangha - this type of training will become an absolute necessity.

Combine that with the ability to have a standard level of education and training for our clergy (which right now so widely varies from place to place that even within the same &quot;denomination&quot;) and it seems nearly an imperitive to pursue this goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as a follow-up&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure we do need schools in the West to train &#8220;scholars of Buddhism.&#8221; We *have* that already, at a lot of fine institutions of Higher Education. Many of the world&#8217;s best &amp; brightest &#8220;scholars&#8221; of Buddhism are Westerners.</p>
<p>Rather, what I see us needing are professional schools to train professional &#8220;practitioners.&#8221; Seminaries.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t go to a seminary to be a scholar &#8211; you go to become a &#8220;minister&#8221; &#8211; and as more and more Buddhist monks, priests, and &#8220;Dharma Teachers&#8221; are called upon to &#8220;minister&#8221; to their Sangha &#8211; this type of training will become an absolute necessity.</p>
<p>Combine that with the ability to have a standard level of education and training for our clergy (which right now so widely varies from place to place that even within the same &#8220;denomination&#8221;) and it seems nearly an imperitive to pursue this goal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jiun</title>
		<link>http://www.openbuddha.com/2007/03/27/seminaries-and-training-in-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-2098</link>
		<dc:creator>Jiun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more - and, in fact, was just discussing this very thing with a collegue (I work at a University) this morning.

Another needed function I see a &quot;Buddhist Seminary&quot; providing, along with the standard doctrinal, liturgical, practice methodology studies - is the more pastoral training we in the West expect from our &quot;clergy.&quot; It&#039;s not enough here to be able to quote a sutra, teach Shamatha, and perform a funeral. Until Buddhist clergy receive the same &quot;professional training&quot; that other clergy recieve - they simply won&#039;t be treated as any more than deeply commited &quot;hobby-ists.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more &#8211; and, in fact, was just discussing this very thing with a collegue (I work at a University) this morning.</p>
<p>Another needed function I see a &#8220;Buddhist Seminary&#8221; providing, along with the standard doctrinal, liturgical, practice methodology studies &#8211; is the more pastoral training we in the West expect from our &#8220;clergy.&#8221; It&#8217;s not enough here to be able to quote a sutra, teach Shamatha, and perform a funeral. Until Buddhist clergy receive the same &#8220;professional training&#8221; that other clergy recieve &#8211; they simply won&#8217;t be treated as any more than deeply commited &#8220;hobby-ists.&#8221;</p>
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